Racing Wheel Comparison (need input) Also game reccomendations

[Motorsport Nick]

So I am for sure buying GTR2 tommorow as I am building my new pc tommorow. I am also buying a wheel for the game. I can get the Momo Logitech wheel, i found a place that has it for a good deal, but then I saw the G25. I just want to know if the G25 is worth the extra money. How much more do you benefit with the G25???

Also, I am picking up GTR2 for sure, and most likely Gt Legends as well. A friend told me to pick up R Factor too though. What other games should I be getting besides GTR2??

[GUPSTER]

The pedals on the G25 are much better then the momo's (also a clutch pedal the momo does not have) The steering wheel is 10 times better then the momo. The shifter is gated with 7 positions... that's 5 more then the momo.. my vote is yes to the G25.

[2JZFAN]

i just got my G25 today and I haven't been able to stop! i really enjoy the feedback i get from this wheels and there's nothing like the shifter. it's well worth the money and really adds to the overall experience of this game as well as others.. not to mention it works with consoles too, i'm having a blast drifting in GT3 and circuits in GT4 :cool::

get it you won't regret it! also, if you're looking for a nice deal visit pricegrabber and you'll find it below 300$ shipped

[sycosteve]

i feel the g25 has more realistic feel.. not only the force feedback, but the diamiter on the sterring wheel is bigger.. and alsy able to be set @900degress rotaion if you want....
settings for the game are more or less feel of the drivers style....
i my self use the profiler and use the following:
force feedback 100
spring effect 42
damper 42
center spring 30
*also make sure you uncheck the box at top say report pedals as combined*
in game gtr2 i use 41 forcefeedback this here you can raise or lower depending how you like to feel.. i change somtimes with different setups/cars.
i have had my g25 fore a few weeks and do love it.. if money is a issue then the momo is still a great wheel also i had that one as well.

[Freddyfartbox]

I've had a Logitec Momo for a couple months, and it's a good buy. The G25 sounds nice, but I'm wondering how much I would like the H-shifter, I really like the paddle shift (so convenient). The 900 degrees wheel rotation sounds a bit excessive to me, though I understand you can set it to what you want. The one thing about the G25 that sounds like a real selling point for me, is the fact you can set the brake pedal pressure so it feels like real brake pedal, it's so frustrating locking the front brakes without even realizing you've done it. But if you're on a budget that doesn't include the cost of a G25, the Momo is an excellent wheel, you won't be disappointed, and you can always use the Momo for a year or 2 while you save for a G25, or the next version of it.

[Dzul]

I agree with Freddy... I saw today the MOMO and the G25 out of the box, on the same store, and had a chance to fiddle around with both.

The MOMO feels just right... it might not look modern and shiny but it feels like I can use it over and over and it will perform throughout the years. The wheel itself has the same sporty feeling as the steering wheel of our Seat Leon and I really like that. I also like the buttons placement on the wheel's panel and the fact that the sequential shifter is so close to it, right on the body of the product: no extra desk-space needed! Of course, next to the G25 it looks... like another plastic wheel. The G25 is just a league apart. The wheel itself is beautiful, the metal and leather make it look almost like a piece of crafted art... but it's thin, and it feels less sporty than the MOMO... and I don't think any of my games will benefit from the broad rotation it has to offer (GTR2/RBR). Yet, the most astonishing piece is the pedals, hands down. Just this solid piece of precise engineering is surely worth the price-tag... I wish I could stick the G25 pedals to the MOMO! That would be awesome! The separate shifter of the G25 is very nice to look at and ponder, but it felt way too flimsy to me... like it won't be able to take a year of heavy use... I hope I'm wrong. I'm not saying the G25 is a bad wheel, au contraire... it looks worth the price. On the practical part, I just feel that if I don't use it every day, or at least every weekend, I'm paying too much (even at the low €245 price tag I saw at a local store). Also, if I'm not going to use the clutch and H-gearbox the G25 has I might as well spend half its price in a MOMO, which will give me the same enjoyment on a less-to-daily basis... and perhaps try to figure out how to get those other pedals attached...

But what really makes me think it over and over is this:

The MOMO is the peak of the previous generation of steering wheels.
The G25 is the first of the incoming generation of steering wheels.

I'm thrilled they got it 96% right (according to SimHQ's review)... but I think I'll wait and save for the G30: with a sturdier shifter, more buttons on the wheel and the gas pedal a bit further for the perfect heel-and-toe technique (at least that's what I'm going to put on my wishlist)...

[jsimmons]

I use an ECCI. Force-Feedback is for sissies.

[darock]

Originally Posted by jsimmons

Force-Feedback is for sissies.

Spring centered wheels are for childrens' games.

[darock]

Ever see a Formula I car with a spring centered steering wheel? Wonder how fast Schumacher would be if his steering wheel didn't give him feedback, just mindless spring tension?

[Jodiuh]

Momo vs Driving Force Pro?

My bro had a Wingman Formula Force and hated the crappy pedals, the vinyl wheel, and ridiculously over the top force feedback that had me fighting the wheel for my life!

With all this G25 hubbub, I figured it was time to try something else. I picked up the Momo from Compusa and it's force feedback actually helps me race. It's possible to tell when the wheels are giving out now! The pedals suck much less and the wheel itself feels much less like a toy.

But I've seen some posts on hardforum and racesimcentral w/ favorable impressions of the DFP over the Momo. What do you guys think?

[duke_toaster]

DFP is good and not too expensive now.

Simwise, apart from GTR2, try the demo of Live For Speed. If it's not your bag, fine, but it supposedly has more players online at any one time than GTR2.

[Sp33dRCR]

I just picked up the MoMo as my first Wheel since the crappy wheel that you could get for Sega Saturn and play Need For Speed with. I'm quite happy with it and couldn't justify the cost right now for the G25. I found it somewhat local at a discount electronics store in Houston for $246. Outstanding since NCIX.com has it for $242 shipped RIGHT NOW!!

NCIX.com: $199 G25 deal ends 1/2/2007!!!!

[Dazmaniac]

Originally Posted by Motorsport Nick

Also, I am picking up GTR2 for sure, and most likely Gt Legends as well. A friend told me to pick up R Factor too though. What other games should I be getting besides GTR2??

I'd plump for......

GT Legends and Rfactor and maybe try the demo of Live for Speed (although this game is not everyone's cup of tea).

[Jodiuh]

I just got back from Fry's and compared the Momo vs G25 vs DFP and will be keeping the Momo. The G25 shifter feels like a toy and the lack of buttons on the wheel make me sad. $200 for the pedals and bigger wheel doesn't seem worthwhile imo. The DFP's paddles are about the size of my thumbnail and that's a dealbreaker as well. Now I just need to work my way off novice in GTR2!

[SFDMALEX]

Originally Posted by Jodiuh

$200 for the pedals and bigger wheel doesn't seem worthwhile imo

You pay for better FFB, better construction, bigger wheel, leather and pedals which could be sold as standalone.



I paid close to 700$ US for my pedals. The pedals that G25 offers could be sold for 250$ easy was it a standalone unit like the many you can get


200$ for that whole kit is a steal.


I've spent lots of money in controllers over the last 4 years, and let me tell you, G25 is a steal

MOMO is a good wheel, but I owned all of them, and G25 is just a different league.


Personaly I could not live with 270 degrees anyway, so for me the only two wheels are DFP and G25.

[oppis]

.i got my g25 a week ago and i have already improved my laptimes in gtr2 and rbr . my old wheel is the red momo force that i bougt in 2002 .and its no doubt the g25 are a much better wheel than the red and the black momo.
And rbr is the best rally sim ever made.but its difficult........ but no pain no gain

[michaudt]

I started with a CH Flight Sim Yoke and Rudder pedals back in 1995 when I first started sim racing. Went to the M$ Sidewinder, to Saitek R440, to Momo Black to finally the G25 this November. If you're a hardcore guy the G25 is well worth the money. It may not improve your lap times but you will be so much more immersed in the games. You may think that the 900 degrees of rotation is excessive but for me that is a great feature that I wouldn't want to go without now.
I've always love GTL but felt it wasn't as hardcore as the Papyrus sims or GTR but since getting the G25, it has absolutly transformed it. I use the full 900 degrees of steering, the clutch and H-shifter and for my money GTL now gives me the most authentic feel of any sim. I haven't even touched GTR-2 since getting the G25. The only down side to the G-25 is that the pedals are a bit too close together. Since getting the G-25 I switched from a left foot to right foot braking. To be honest though, I prefer it this way it was very easy to switch.

By the way you should be able to get GTR2 and GTL in a combo if you look.

I know I may sound like a salesman but I really can't say enough good things about the G25. If mine broke tomorrow, and I had to dish out double the price to replace it. I probably would.

[michaudt]

Also I should mention that if you have some type of cockpit setup the G25 has threaded holes on the bottom of the pedals so you can bolt it down if you want to. I have a Bob Earl Virtual Racing Chassis, and the pedals are bolted to it so they never move. Nice feature because the pedal platform is quite a bit bigger than the Momo pedals. I had my old pedals duct-taped to the chassis but the G25 pedals were too big, then I noticed the threaded holes.

[Sp33dRCR]

What alot of people fail to do is and give bad judgement need to properly configure the damn thing first and give it a try for a week. I gotta say I was quite upset at first when i got the MoMo 2 days ago....I almost went back to my 360 controller since I've been racing with a controller ever since I traded the Saturn in for a PS1. After tweaking the settings and applying the right settings (like disabling the "Pedals as same Axis" option) I was quite happy with my MoMo, BUT, I still look forward to my purchase of the G25. I do find that for an even an extra $200 I'd like a Clutch and a bigger Steering wheel made of METAL. Hell yea totally worth. You appreciate construction of such when you try to manufacture your own custom parts to mod with. All polished and functional, well worth it.

[Fish]

I use a Thomas Ent. wheel - quality that's built to last. I got tired of buying mass market wheels only to have them wear out a few months later. My Thomas super wheel costs a bit more but it is industrial grade and is servicable, it doesn't have force feedback but it saves me lap time over a force feedback wheel. You can have your Momos and all that junk they sell at Fry's and Best Buy, I'll stick with my Thomas Super Duper Wheel for the rest of my life cause it will last that long.

[Jodiuh]

Originally Posted by Sp33dRCR

After tweaking the settings and applying the right settings (like disabling the "Pedals as same Axis" option) I was quite happy with my MoMo...

What else did you tweak? And what did the "pedal/axis" option do? I believe mine's enable now.

Originally Posted by Fish

You can have your Momos and all that junk they sell at Fry's and Best Buy...

Good junk...good boy. I love mine!! :roflmao:

[Sp33dRCR]

Originally Posted by Jodiuh

What else did you tweak? And what did the "pedal/axis" option do? I believe mine's enable now.


Good junk...good boy. I love mine!! :roflmao:

I agree, this good junk works jsut great, what a hater....lol. To each their own anyhow, not sure what the Thomas Entertainment thing is all about but I think $200 is about as far as I'm going for a game controller, just waiting for the G25 to drop to that point. In the maentime the Momo does the trick, aside the tiny steering wheel I get along fine with it.


As far as what else I tweaked, that's more along the lines for you to adjust in game under controls. See what feels good for you as far as dead zones and etc. What can be done is adjusting the Steering wheel lock turn radius. After turning all my settings up from 15 std, to about 18 (depends on car and track some a tad more or less). Turning that axis option off allows you to use the gas and brake independant from one anohter, meaning you can get on the gas still and maintian your RPM's somewhat while on the brakes more then if you had the option selected. I'm not sure if your acustomed to heel-toe method or not but allows you to utilize this more .

[Mogget]

Spring centered wheels are for childrens' games.

Don't be silly. My Saitek R220 Digital is a spring centred wheel, and I don't see the problem. It works perfectly with GT Legends and GTR2, and "setting it up" involved nothing more than connecting it to my PC !!

[darock]

not sure what the Thomas Entertainment thing is all about

Those wheels are made of particle board (heavy and strong for sure) strap iron and industrial strength bits and pieced. I think the guys who make them do it as a sideline at a family run company that erects steel towers. They are simply very heavily built spring-centered steering wheels. Oh yeah, and they are EXPENSIVE as hell. I paid $500 for mine 4 or 5 years ago. It's been in the attic gathering dust since I bought my original MOMO. If sim wheels were cars, the TSW's would be Mack trucks.

My

Saitek R220 Digital is a spring centred wheel, and I don't see the problem.

Want to understand why spring centered wheels wheels don't get it in a game? Look under the hood of your own car (the big one parked outside your front door) and try to find centering springs on the steering.

Does your spring centered steering wheel have any idea if your GTR2 car is on a straight, in a turn, in the pits, or even if your pc is turned on? So you're sailing into the Parabolica at 200+mph and start to turn the spring centered wheel and how does it feel? About like it feels when your pc is turned off. Smoooooth........ And "accurate"....... and lifeless...... and nothing like "real"....

"Accurate" is one of the spring-centered bigots loudest cries, but no matter how loudly they bleat, spring-centering is lifeless, but accurately lifeless. I would imagine they're much like the people in antiquity who refused to believe the world wasn't flat.

[darock]

I've got a TSW, MOMO force, MOMO racing, and just recently got the G25.

The G25 is an excellent wheel and worth way more than it's price. It would have been an excellent value even if it had cost as much as my TSW did, and that lump cost over $500 (and another $50 to get it "serviced" (they replaced the entire wiring harness) since shipping on particle board and iron is expensive.

The G25 has excellent pedals, a great wheel, and is as robust as my old MOMO force (and I've worn a shine into the leather on the wheel, I've used it so much).

And the G25's ff is excellent. You need to tune it to your own touch, but so what. I had to tune my SCCA cars when I raced them. You got to tune GTR2 don't you?

go for the G25

It's the leading edge and if it lasts half the use my MOMO force has given me so far, you'll be happy as a clam. (And it looks to be a tad more robust than the old MOMO Force.)

[skridge]

i have a red momo force i bought back in the 90's. still going strong and still works perfect.

[Mogget]

I understand what you're saying, but that doesn't alter the fact that buying a super duper G25 wheel with all the trimmings would be overkill for someone like me. I'm not interested in online multiplayer racing, and I certainly can't be bothered to practice for eight hours a day in order to reduce my lap times by another tenth of a second. I use GT Legends and GTR2 for quick races (no more than 8-10 laps). I start at the back of a full grid of 36 AI cars, and I try to pass as many cars as possible, whilst thoroughly enjoying lots of "middle of the pack" action in the process. I generally don't mess around with setups, but that doesn't mean that I don't want the car physics to be realistic. It just means that I am content to drive the car "factory fresh", however difficult that may be.

I never claimed that the Saitek R220 Digital wheel was super accurate, but it DOES do the job that it was designed to do. It may be inadequate for your own requirements, but that doesn't automatically make it "only good for children's games".

[darock]

It may be inadequate for your own requirements, but that doesn't automatically make it "only good for children's games".

If you look at the thread above where I posted the "kiddie games" comment, you will see a post that, from out of the blue, jsimmons takes a backhand swat at force feedback wheels. For what reason?? who knows??

But the truth is, the idea that there is something wrong with ff is a joke

And since this is a thread comparing wheels, it's of value to explain where each type wheel might fall short of simulating driving. It's not plain silly to do.

And you've brought forth very good points on where exactly the Saitek r220 fits in the scheme of things. Sorry you seemed to take the descriptions of spring-centered wheels personal.

[vrmx]

Originally Posted by skridge

i have a red momo force i bought back in the 90's. still going strong and still works perfect.

Wow! It was released 2001 btw...

[darock]

Originally Posted by Motorsport Nick

So I am for sure buying GTR2 tommorow as I am building my new pc tommorow. I am also buying a wheel for the game. I can get the Momo Logitech wheel, i found a place that has it for a good deal, but then I saw the G25. I just want to know if the G25 is worth the extra money. How much more do you benefit with the G25???

Also, I am picking up GTR2 for sure, and most likely Gt Legends as well. A friend told me to pick up R Factor too though. What other games should I be getting besides GTR2??

The G25 is certainly worth the price. Easily worth it.

As for other games..........
It's not a simulation of any real events, but it's great fun and once you get the hang of the way the cars handle, it might be closer to a good simulation of "driving" on dirt backroads and through deserted towns than anything yet. And it's an absolute hoot to play...... FLATOUT2 is a real good time. No lie.

[darock]

Originally Posted by vrmx

Wow! It was released 2001 btw...

Hey, 2001 could be the really, really LATE 90's couldn't it?

[Mogget]

If you look at the thread above where I posted the "kiddie games" comment, you will see a post that, from out of the blue, jsimmons takes a backhand swat at force feedback wheels. For what reason?? who knows??

OK, maybe I misunderstood the reasons for your response to my post. If that is the case, then I apologise.

[darock]

Originally Posted by Mogget

OK, maybe I misunderstood the reasons for your response to my post. If that is the case, then I apologise.

No need to apologize. I really wasn't responding to your post, but to the ideas from before it.

[Jodiuh]

Originally Posted by Sp33dRCR

What can be done is adjusting the Steering wheel lock turn radius. After turning all my settings up from 15 std, to about 18 (depends on car and track some a tad more or less). Turning that axis option off allows you to use the gas and brake independant from one anohter, meaning you can get on the gas still and maintian your RPM's somewhat while on the brakes more then if you had the option selected. I'm not sure if your acustomed to heel-toe method or not but allows you to utilize this more .

You mean the physical amount of degrees I can turn the wheel? And I'm not familiar w/ the heel-toe method. Anywhere I can go to read up on that?

[HarleyRider]

You know there are adjustments for the effect of force feedback.

I have tried all three and I still like the MOMO. Especially for the money. Use it for a couple of years and if it breaks, buy a new one. I have another new one still in the box just in case this one breaks, but after two years of hard use it's still kicking ass! Besides, I use a cockpit to race in and I taylored it to fit the MOMO.

Cheers!!!

[darock]

Originally Posted by Jodiuh

You mean the physical amount of degrees I can turn the wheel? And I'm not familiar w/ the heel-toe method. Anywhere I can go to read up on that?

I don't know what he meant, but there are a couple of places you can change the lock-to-lock. With a MOMO G25, which can have more than one complete revolution left and more than one right, you can do that in the Windows wizard for controllers. Look in the properties and change the degrees of rotation. And then there is the setup value in GTR2 that's almost always set to 15. In the garage, the "setup 1" screen at the center top has a "lock" setting that is usually 15degrees. That actually makes little sense since most steering wheels will go at least 90degrees each side. And who knows what the developer means.

[darock]

Originally Posted by Jodiuh

And I'm not familiar w/ the heel-toe method. Anywhere I can go to read up on that?

When you downshift, the car will be upset less if you sync the engine rpm to what it should be when you lift your clutch foot. This is in real cars. And in some real cars, if you don't do it, you've just spun the sucker or worse.

When you're slowing down and wish to downshift, you've let up on the gas in whatever gear you've been in. If the throttle is still lifted when you engage the lower gear, the engine will REALLY contribute to engine braking because it won't be running fast enough for the new gear ratios.

So when you downshift, you don't want to go from say 5th to 3rd and when you get to 3rd have the engine idling with no gas going into it. Do that you you're history and the geartrain and engine are heading there too.

So you want to keep your foot on the gas.

But you need your throttle foot to brake. And your left foot is on the clutch. So if you don't have 3 feet, one foot is going to have to do two jobs.

Heel-and-toe

Your right toe is on the brake.
Your right heel is on the gas, keeping the engine revved up for when it gets hit with the downshift gearing.

Heel-and-toe is a required skill for road racers for sure. But most games are coded so that you don't have to do it.

[darock]

BTW, I'm presently driving a couple of cars that are under development for a mod. They are very sensitive to downshift rpm "impact". I didn't even realize it when the first couple of downshifts resulted in INSTANT spinouts, but I unconsciously lapsed back into the old days and started heel-and-toeing. Good thing I now have a G25. It's got all three pedals.

Truth is, I think those cars might ruin the mod's popularity because I doubt ANY of todays "sim nuts" really want a car that needs to be heel-and-toed just to make it around the track.

[wingboot]

Originally Posted by darock

Your right toe is on the brake.
Your right heel is on the gas, keeping the engine revved up for when it gets hit with the downshift gearing.

Heel-and-toe is a required skill for road racers for sure. But most games are coded so that you don't have to do it.

With all respect, isn't heel and toe a misnomer. Isn't it big toe and one or two others on the brake and right side of the foot on the throttle? More of a foot "rolling" motion than a rocking motion as one would walk heel to toe. This is more of a question than a statement

thanks

[KarlosDaJackal]

Originally Posted by wingboot

With all respect, isn't heel and toe a misnomer. Isn't it big toe and one or two others on the brake and right side of the foot on the throttle? More of a foot "rolling" motion than a rocking motion as one would walk heel to toe. This is more of a question than a statement

thanks

yes but in the early days of cars (around 1900) you actually could put your heel on the accelerator

if i may quote wikipedia
"The name, stemming from earlier automotive designs where the accelerator pedal was on the left and could be actuated with the heel while the brake pedal was actuated with the toe, is misleading regarding how the technique is carried out in modern cars, i.e., operating the brake with the left edge of the foot, while rocking it down and to the right to operate the throttle."

[darock]

And it also depends on your car's accelerator. I've had a couple that had throttle pedals that weren't pedals at all. They were rollers on the end of a metal rod.

And yes, with a lot of cars, you use the side of your heel on the accelerator.

Now, let's all sit back and see if anyone wants to explain "double clutching".... grin

[darock]

I'll go first and say that it was what I did the first time I convinced my date to climb into the back seat with me.