If youcould design the perfect racing sim...

[October]

...what would it have in it? What would be different?

Ok, I can't take credit for this idea... I saw a thread on at least one other forum about "GTR3" and what should be in it... what do you think?

[snowy]

Deformable tyres from LFS,
rFactor's V8Supercar mod with sway bars and adjustable diffs
GTR2's Porsche's
GTL's Jaguars, Ford's, Porsches, and Shelbeys (well all the GTL cars actually)
Easy Championship creation tools
rFactor's video edit tools
DTM, F1, Pre 1998 Champ Cars, Aus V8Supercars, European Truck Racing, Caterhams, TVR Tuscans, Nascars, GP2, Formula 3000, European F3, Formula Ford, Formula Renault, Formula Atlantic, FIA Rally Championship, Superbikes, Moto GP, Sidecars all highly finished and fitted as standard.

No full course yellow ever!

No invisible barriers anywhere

You have to drive to your next race, even if that means loading your car on a trailer hooked to the back of a Transit van or in an arctic.

A flight sim for transporting abroad.

I think that about covers it for now.

[lowndes888]

Originally Posted by snowy

Deformable tyres from LFS,
rFactor's V8Supercar mod with sway bars and adjustable diffs
GTR2's Porsche's
GTL's Jaguars, Ford's, Porsches, and Shelbeys (well all the GTL cars actually)
Easy Championship creation tools
rFactor's video edit tools
DTM, F1, Pre 1998 Champ Cars, Aus V8Supercars, European Truck Racing, Caterhams, TVR Tuscans, Nascars, GP2, Formula 3000, European F3, Formula Ford, Formula Renault, Formula Atlantic, FIA Rally Championship, Superbikes, Moto GP, Sidecars all highly finished and fitted as standard.

No full course yellow ever!

No invisible barriers anywhere

You have to drive to your next race, even if that means loading your car on a trailer hooked to the back of a Transit van or in an arctic.

A flight sim for transporting abroad.

I think that about covers it for now.

I guess I should buy a bigger HDD for this game!!!

[October]

Heh!

Well, I'll start with stuff I'd just like fixed from GTR2:


PIT LANE:

1) That guy that waves you out of your pit box? He needs to be a bit sharper, I think. So many accidents happen right on pit lane because that guy has been drinking on the job or something.

2) Better pitting. If I roll six inches past the "stop" sign when I come in for a pit my pit crew should grab the car and pull it back that little bit. I shouldn't have to spend a ton of precious time putting the car in reverse and shooting for it again. Could also make the pit lane animations smoother instead of that pinball effect I see sometimes.

WEATHER:

1) Sunlight: It would be cool if you could have a bind that would make one of your hands come up and either flip down a visor, if available, or just hold your hand up to block the sun for a moment. Of course GTR3 (or whatever) could have even more realistic flares to blind you too

2) Rain: I would like to see more realistic rain effects including the spray from passing/leading cars obscuring my view and working wipers. How about standing water in low or slightly rutted sections of the track? Make rain more realistic both while falling and once it's on the ground.

3) Dust & Smoke: Look pretty darn good now but could definitely be improved some more. Make the windshield take a good dirtying when driving through dust and/or smoke. Smoke from burnt engines in front-engine cars should also be a factor... maybe oilspray on the windshield?

DAMAGE:

1) More of it and more detailed, both visually and performance wise, *especially* in "simulation" mode! Damage is way too light on most servers in simulation.

2) Dirt on tires should be factored in.

3) Marbles on the turns should be factored in.

4) Slick spots w/without kitty litter should be factored in.

5) Damage to tire barriers, etc. would be nice to see. Have the buffer that stores skid marks be user adjustable too. If I have the graphics power and memory to store every single skid mark, loose tire and bit of debris during an entire race the game should let me do so.

AI Team Manager:

1) In a career mode where money is a real working factor it might be neat to upgrade your pit crew & mechanics.

2) Car setups: Team management *should* be able to suggest different setups for different cars on different tracks in different conditions. If I'm going for a couple of laps for qualification I should be able to select a smart qualification setup, etc. Really good AI would be able to suggest setup improvements based on my driving ability; i.e. strengths and weaknesses. Could also make suggestions on how to improve my weak spots... maybe in the form of tool tips when you mouse over a setup item.

3) MoTec could also be better implemented that what is found in GTR2 "out of the box".


Animation and graphics:

1) Shifting: In cars that actually use the sequential paddle flippers to shift the animation in game should do so too. Where an H pattern shifter is actually used then use the correct animation for that too.

2) Switches: Ignition, starter, motec, pitlane speed limiter, etc. All of these things could be animated correctly creating a more realistic experience.

3) I can adjust my mirrors in real life, why not in the game too?

4) How cool would it be to actually see the GLOW from hot brakes and exhaust systems, especially at night?

5) Bystanders could be animated as a graphics option instead of those 2D cardboard cutouts. Hell, throw birds in the sky, ballons, whatever. Deer crossing the track anyone?

6) Cars wrecked, taken out of the race, etc. could be done more realistically. If a driver gets a DNF during a race have a wrecker come and get his car off the track, not just disappear into thin air. Car on fire? Same thing (fire crews, etc.) and have the driver jump out, etc.

7) Flying obstacles including cones, tires on the loose, other debris. I'd love to see a rock chip or two happen

AI Drivers
:

1) A setting where AI actually makes keeping his car intact first priority. Too often I see AI drivers act like they are in bumper cars or something.

2) More control over how the AI behaves in general with an adjustable random component thrown in too. Why do all the AI drivers have to drive the same? Couldn't a bunch of them be really sane, safe (and slower) and only a couple be suicidal maniacs?

3) In 24 hour races relief drivers should drive subtly different than their partners and should also take a bit to get "in the groove".

4) AI's behavior should be more realistic in respect to the proximity of other cars. If fighting off a pass could (should?) drive more aggressively. If car damaged or worn should drive appropriately. In other words let the AI drive more like real people would... make more mistakes when under pressure, be more cautious when caution is called for too.

That's it for now

[Joel]

Originally Posted by October

lots of interesting ideas

All that and it should run with full detail at a minimum 100fps on my crappy old system :p


How about a proper career mode that takes into account your season budget. Break your car and you have to pay to fix it. Not enough money? Too bad, you have to drive it as it is in the next race until you get more prize money or earn that factory drive. Write it off and your car is removed from the game!


In terms of the subject for the sim, I want some late 60's or early 70's World Sportscars modelled in their period setting, not modern historic racing like GTL. Porsche 917 and Ferrari 512 sort of thing, with all the appropriate tracks properly and fully modelled, including NS and Targa Florio. Oh, and some late 50's sports cars like the Jaguar D-type, Aston DBR1 and Ferrari 250TR

[Pero_Grozni]

Simple

Proper physics - tires calculated using FEM (seperate for friction, deformation and fluid dynamics), much more complex system of equations (more degrees of fredom allowing for chassis deformation, bushing deformation, proper spring/damper characteristics - calculated rigidity, changes of oil viscosity due to heat increase in dampers, engine calculations dependant on temperature, pressure..., multiple suspension types, ....) Many more ideas of what to incoporate, but it all means a monster computer to do it realtime.
Anyhow the basic things.
I want a proper rally sim that would cover the 70's and 80's. Seperate seasons with special car models for each year, real stages with varying conditions(rain, wet leaves, wet snow, black ice, dust on corners, gravel on tarmac on corners where lots of cutting happens...).
Proper cockpits and car physics developed by calculations based on the measurements of the real cars.
Gotta have some sort of online possibility - maybe something like the early RBR online racing system.

Yeah - I want a proper rally sim where I could have a Fiat 131 / Escort Mk2 battle - pehaps a British championship from the late 70's would be enough to keep me happy for a while.

[Mogget]

The perfect racing sim for me would be one that included all 24 unique tracks from GT Legends, GTR2, and RACE. I would be able to race cars from all three games on all 24 tracks, none of the files would be encrypted, and each package would come with a fluffy little kitten ABSOLUTELY FREE !

[October]

I think the perfect racing sim would not only be moddable but would encourage modding by providing useful tools, tutorials, and openly licensed content to work with.

The perfect sim would have an engine that worked with any sort of racing... in the real world monster trucks crushing cars and F1 race cars all have to follow the same laws of physics. The perfect sim (engine) would take all of wheel based transport into consideration so the same sim could do track racing, baha, wrc, top fuel drag racing, etc. equally well.

[lowndes888]

A career-based GTR2 is enough for me.
Oh, and smarter AI so as not to push me off the first corner at Pukekohe on the last lap

[Sidewinder16]

I'll put a few suggestions down for the online side of sims

1. Linux dedicated server that runs off the command line and does not require a GUI tool (i.e. a game server that can be administered over ssh and remote in game console like Battlefield 2142 or Counter Strike).

2. Proper ban lists to deal with wreckers.

As for the whole using FEM for game physics something like that has been done in X-Plane http://www.x-plane.com/about.html

[David Wright]

Everyone has their own racing sim obsession and mine is bumpy tracks. We have made progress from the days of GPLs smooth tracks with NR2003 and ISI/Simbin titles incorporating bumps, but they are only approximations. What I'm really looking forward to is the advent of laser scanned tracks as will be used on iRacing's new sim. Sadly iRacing's sim won't have AI and will probably be subscription only which are two things stopping it becoming my perfect racing sim.

It will be interesting to see how sim racing develops in the next couple of years. We seem to be at the crossroads. We have some developers such as Simbin and Blimey aiming to broaden their market with console versions of their titles. We also have other developers who are aiming for the hardcore market such as NetKar Pro and iRacing.

[snowy]

Originally Posted by October

I think the perfect racing sim would not only be moddable but would encourage modding by providing useful tools, tutorials, and openly licensed content to work with.

The perfect sim would have an engine that worked with any sort of racing... in the real world monster trucks crushing cars and F1 race cars all have to follow the same laws of physics. The perfect sim (engine) would take all of wheel based transport into consideration so the same sim could do track racing, baha, wrc, top fuel drag racing, etc. equally well.

Still haven't got rFactor eh?

[papercutsuicide]

first a question whats mopar never known what that is...

and then my game:
adjustable physics (you can both go super realistic and bumpercar)

cars from all classes and ages (f1 gt rally offroad but also street machines) and the freedom to race them at any track (although i admit it would be hard to drive a f1 car in the finish rally)

both a carrer mode and a arcade mode (i still havent gotten around beating gtl those last tracks are to long to finish)

and of course as previously mentioned easy to mod

[lowndes888]

What do you mean by Mopar? I know of a Dodge tuner named Mopar but I don't know if this is your question:confused:

[SR-71_BAZ]

i'd love to see all of the above especially anything that pushes the game closer to reality.

My ideal format would be World Sportscar Championship/IMSA from the late 70's, early 80's and all the way to the early 90's. most cars, porsche 956/962 as an example, were compeditive for about 10 years in this period and thus you could run anything in this period and still be able to compete.

You'd have the normally aspirated jags racing the nissans, toyotas, sauber mercedes and porsches. and then you could have a seperate class for the lower powered customer cars with the spice's, argo's and so on.

i want real tracks that allow you to run off right to where the armco actually is. suspension that progresses rather than snaps and jolts, and generally more realism

[October]

I saw a thread elsewhere on these forums that contained a great idea about "addons" and such.

At least with custom car skins a server should have the option of enabling downloads to clients and a browser should be made available (something like the "Online files" browser for setups?) to the client so he/she can see what skins the server might have that they do not. Select one of the skins on both or select one from the server and download it.

[KarlosDaJackal]

GTR2 but with a Grid Girl who stands infront of your monitor for 10 mins before the race starts while you stair at her ass :roflmao:

[lowndes888]

Chuck would want GTR2 to be like that

[Mike45]

aww you like chuck Norris more than lowndesy now. and yes grid girls would be a great idea. If i was to improve on GTR2 i would get rid of walls and other objects that don't exist in real life and also it would be good if the dev team continued there support for the game after its initial release eg. providing full carset updates once a new season starts in real life.

And to be honest the greatest ever V8supercars SIM i have ever played is GTR2 with Mr_Ingalls V8 supercar mod.

[lowndes888]

Nope, this is just a joke. I think I'll return to my standard avatar. But I'll let this one a little longer.

[LordRa9826]

The grid girl is imperative!!!Otherwise it will be just another game....